Isaac Asimov said: “I am frequently asked if I have visited Israel, whereas yet, it is simply assumed that I have. Well, I don’t travel. I really don’t, and if I did, I probably wouldn’t visit Israel. I remember how it was in 1948 when Israel was being established and all my Jewish friends were ecstatic, I was not. I said: what are we doing? We are establishing ourselves in a ghetto, in a small corner of a vast Muslim sea. The Muslims will never forget nor forgive, and Israel, as long as it exists, will be embattled. I was laughed at, but I was right. I can’t help but feel that the Jews didn’t really have the right to appropriate a territory only because 2000 years ago, people they consider their ancestors, were living there. History moves on and you can’t really turn it back.”
The absence of democracy in the Arab world is a century old recipe confected by Churchill in the 1920’s, when the UK denied repeated Arab appeals for a single representation election to create a unitary Arab government. Instead, the Western European powers selected and protected puppet regimes throughout the region, which could be relied upon to protect European economic and political interests in Palestine and elsewhere. Which brings us to . . . today!
I hope you don't object to me commenting, as an Irish Catholic whose family was a target of the British, I see the parallel with Palestine. Democracy does not exist when there is a gun to your head. In 1972 the British bombed my family home and business. We were a family of 11, it was the week after Christmas. The bomb was placed inside a child's ride on tractor. It is a grim reality to realise as a child that there are people who want you and your entire family dead. This is what the Israelis have been doing to generation after generation of Palestinians. It displays the viciousness in the Israelis that is beyond my comprehension. I can only pray that Israel does not use any of those nuclear bombs they are so fond of threatening with. Of course they could not do any of it without American money and the scary part is they are so obviously in full control of American politicians.
Thank you for your firm and lucid words, Mr. Moser. As a Brazilian academic and admirer of Clarice, I first encountered your work through her biography and have admired your stance ever since. I’m a university professor in Portugal, where we have many French students, including many Muslims, and I’ve witnessed the phenomenon you describe: people who were once calm and reserved now writing on walls that Zionism is a disease.
I deeply regret the rise in hatred, and at the same time, I lament how timid and inconsistent the critique of Zionism often is here in Europe. Personally, I also saw myself reflected in your video. I have Jewish colleagues, and I sometimes fear engaging too closely, afraid of discovering they are Zionists. That happened once, and I was left deeply uncomfortable when a colleague told me, “It’s the only way — you don’t understand the reality of the situation.”
These are, indeed, dark times. Strength to all of us — we truly need it.
Yes -- people will always tell you that you don't understand the reality. It is quite simple. The Zionists took someone else's country, and the other people don't like it! Sigamos na luta. Abraços. B
Wow! Zionism actually has made me smarter than all the self hating Jews out there. It’s not worth having a discussion with you as we would never agree. But after reading your essay in the NYT I had to look you up. This is exactly what I thought I would find.
I wish you were smart enough to blame Hamas and the Arab countries, who will never accept the Jews right to live in peace. I do care about the kids of Gaza. I think if the world put pressure on Hamas to release the hostages and stand down this would be over. Before the war they used their wealth on tunnels and weapons, instead of food and shelter for their civilians. I do believe Israel is the homeland of the Jews and a two-state solution was the correct way forward, but the Palestinians don't want any Jews anywhere. I also believe if we don't have Israel Jews are not safe anywhere. I pray for an end to this. I want Palestinians to live in peace, but only if they let us live in peace. Why are you so against Jews having a land of their own, on their ancestral land that has always had Jews on it? Do the Arabs need another country? I counted 22.. I understand all this anti-zionism to be anti-Semitism.
You are repeating a string of racist clichés while millions of people are being starved to death by Zionists. I am not going to educate you since you clearly refuse to do so yourself.
Thank you for this great post! For sometime now Zionists are also looking into taking the Argentinian Patagonia. According to Herzl, Jews were given two options—Palestine and South of Argentina. It’s been a few years already that IOF individuals visit Patagonia to “study the place” and in some cases they start the fires so that the land decreases in value. Also the natives from the area are complaining because they’re being evicted and mistreated. But of course it’s not only Zionists, it’s also Brits and Saudis. 🥲
Yep, Netanyahu’s grandiose and megalomaniacal plans to dominate the region are starting to unravel. The Saudi Foreign Minister was just in Tehran for high level discussions with top Iranian political and military leaders to ease tensions between the two countries and discuss plans for the region as a whole. The so called ‘Abraham Accords” are dead and no more. The current slaughter in Gaza has been even too much for the Saudi ruling elite. Now the countries in the region are getting together to solve their problems without the imperial overlords or their regional enforcer.
Your talk left me feeling more sane, human, connected, alive. I am Canadian and much of what Denisa says about her Romanian context also applies to mine, albeit with possibly less authority-sanctioned violence. As a person who works in conflict transformation, I really resonated with your/Levitsky‘s sense of trepidation about talking and possibly damaging friendships, yet seeing no moral alternative. I also liked her more hopeful framing: we need to have the conversation in a different way, so let’s begin. It reminded me of the Massey lecture series taking place in Canada right now in which author and novelist Ian Williams argues for adherence to two principles, the first of which is, “We can talk about anything if we know how,” and the second of which is, “We should still talk, in good faith, even if we don’t know how.“ Anyway, thank you, Mr. Moser for both talking and knowing how to talk. I hope many are listening and will engage.
Yes, I think it's a similar situation in so many places all around the world. I am torn between talking in good faith -- I think that has led nowhere, and I think it also creates this context where "Israel" and "Palestine" are seen as two warring polities, like "Germany" and "France," rather than the correct context, which is, say, "France" and "Algeria" (before independence). It's very hard. We are all taught to be open to dialogue, but it is also important to see how that liberal openness has continually reinforced this most illiberal of regimes.
I'm not Jewish nor am I a scholar but I've read the biographies you've written. I'm from Romania and the memory of how Jewish people were treated over here during the Holocaust is appalling. In school, every year we'd commemorate Holocaust Memorial Day and remember what the Jewish community in our hometown went through at the hands of the totalitarian regime. It's a sensitive topic over here and I'm having a hard time grappling with what's currently happening in Palestine and with our government, like too many others, wholeheartedly supporting it. It's perplexing to witness. Thank you for the work you do and for sharing these personal insights into the issue, as I and others like myself all over Eastern Europe are trying to understand events which feel like they evade all possible explanations.
Yes, the Zionist regime has successfully blackmailed all these governments. Lots of Romanian Jews survived the war and were then sold to Israel for 8000 lei a piece by the communist regime. I wonder if this is widely known in Romania. Please keep up the pressure on your own politicians. It is a disgrace that they support this.
Thank you for sharing this. Personally I knew about it but it was never mentioned in school or elsewhere so the majority of people don't know. Education under totalitarianism would've never allowed things like this to be talked about openly. In Romania, the conversation is heavily focused on preventing antisemitic rhetoric, and this is why it's so difficult to talk about what is Israel is doing without people labelling you as antisemitic. Pro-Palestine protesters have been arrested, attacked, beaten by the police while the media portrayed them as nazi junkies. It's difficult to even honestly talk about it. That's the insidious nature of Israel's propaganda I think, shutting down all conversation by weaponising antisemitism.
95 million people were killed or died in WW2, between 4 and 6 million were Jews. Are you saying that the other 89 million lives were meaningless? How do you measure suffering? was it harder for a Jew to shot in the head after being stripped and made to stand over the mass grave they dug (satanic and despicable there is no question) compare that to a Russian (insert any religion) woman raped, then left to slowly freeze to death on the roadside, both appalling acts of savagery. In the concentration camps were gypsies, resistance, jehovah witnesses. Prostitutes, prisons of war, hooligans along side Jews, the gays were separated and i cannot even imagine what they were subjected to. It bothers me so much that Zionists have turned the suffering of Jewish ancestors into a begging cup and a stick to beat people with. There have been approximately 50 genocides since 1948 so part of me understands the juvenile impulse to say "they did it too" But it is to me is such disrespect for those innocent souls so terrorised and tormented that they probably welcomed death, to use their suffering as a cover story for the absolutely appalling acts of barbarism I have seen on my phone for over 18 months. Day in day out, we have all seen humanity crumble. The Israelis have lost the ability to function in any normal civil society. Just as the Germans had to be rehabilitated after ww2, so will the Israelis, whenever or if ever a group can find the courage to confront and convince them to give up the barbarism.
A very important and well-argued video, thank you. I just have one minor correction. In the early 20th century, the population were 100% Palestinian. It was a multi-faith, country with 3% Jews who regarded themselves as Arabs. As did most Jews in Arab countries. One of the biggest problems is the conflation of Judaism with ethnicity, which I think is debatable. When I, as a Palestinian, did my Ancestry test, I had an equal number of ‘relatives’ with Hebrew names as Arabic ones. We are not significantly different (possibly from European Jews, though?) which is why Israel suppresses and hides all archaeological DNA found in the region.
Anyway, you are absolutely right, Zionism makes people stupid, like all fascist ideologies. They seduce people because they’re very logical. However the logic is devoid of Ethics, hence the acceptance of horror as ‘necessary’.
This is the first time that I have heard such an intense, erudite, and compelling description of what is happening with Zionism. I’m so grateful for your post. I have lost a friend because of her embrace of Zionism and Trump. I know that you cannot be the only scholar saying these things, so this is 100% my own ignorance that I’m only now hearing this argument with such clarity. Media does not cover this viewpoint at all. Thank you!
I know so little about Zionism. You make it so clear. Thank you. I have always defended Israel esp in light of the Shoah, but this narrow minded "right to fight" and destroy others (the Palestinians) as they were once destroy turns Zionism on its head. Zeus forbid you say this out loud to Zionists. You just did🧿💙 The hard truths are what makes us writers. Write on. Talk on. I'm listening.
As an Algerian girl I agree with you My country suffered from French occupation for a century This is perhaps what makes us as Algerians strongly support the Palestinian because we went through the same thing. Murder persecution
rape… and all kinds of torture Even nuclear rays We suffered… I am saying The important thing is to be a human being before anything else.
Killing children isn't considered fighting. Killing an old man, women, or men. Without them able to defend themselves isn't considered fighting. This is an unforgettable genocide.
Wow! This is some devastating wisdom some are certainly not ready to swallow. Author Noah Feldman broaches this too in his book. He is all the rage now, and no less than two Michigan communities brought him to their towns to speak. In my humble opinion, open thinking is the key to moving the needle on intractable conflict. - kaf
In fact, France killed far more than one million people in Algeria. The “one million martyrs” refers only to the period of the Algerian war of Independence. However, from 1830 to 1962, according to some sources, the total number of Algerian deaths may have reached around seven million.
Thanks Ben, many fascinating insights into Judaism and especially Zionism. Living as I do in a small city in Australia, I know few, if any, Jews; my knowledge of Jews, Jewishness and Judaism has come largely through literature and other cultural channels. Yet the past 12 months has shown me how powerful political Judaism is here in Australia, and how something (is it Zionism) has suddenly stopped rational discussion, amongst intelligent people, discussion of a topic like the destruction of Gaza and its people. We do not dare refer to it as a possible genocide! Your discussion was therefore very useful for me.
Yes, a lot of people are scared to refer to it in this way. They don't want to say the wrong thing because they know that the Zionists will come after them. And this fear and silence creates the conditions for countries like Australia to support genocide. That's why it's so important for us all to speak out. Because the Zionists never stop talking.
Isaac Asimov said: “I am frequently asked if I have visited Israel, whereas yet, it is simply assumed that I have. Well, I don’t travel. I really don’t, and if I did, I probably wouldn’t visit Israel. I remember how it was in 1948 when Israel was being established and all my Jewish friends were ecstatic, I was not. I said: what are we doing? We are establishing ourselves in a ghetto, in a small corner of a vast Muslim sea. The Muslims will never forget nor forgive, and Israel, as long as it exists, will be embattled. I was laughed at, but I was right. I can’t help but feel that the Jews didn’t really have the right to appropriate a territory only because 2000 years ago, people they consider their ancestors, were living there. History moves on and you can’t really turn it back.”
Absolutely right and so obvious -- and things have turned out exactly as he knew they would.
Wow I thought the quote was fake because I had never heard of it before but 100% true. I have new respect for Asimov
This! Why isn’t it obvious. Just because something is wanted doesn’t give you the right to take it.
The absence of democracy in the Arab world is a century old recipe confected by Churchill in the 1920’s, when the UK denied repeated Arab appeals for a single representation election to create a unitary Arab government. Instead, the Western European powers selected and protected puppet regimes throughout the region, which could be relied upon to protect European economic and political interests in Palestine and elsewhere. Which brings us to . . . today!
Absolutely. The West consistently destroyed Arab democracies, and then blamed the Arabs for not being more democratic. What a world we live in.
I hope you don't object to me commenting, as an Irish Catholic whose family was a target of the British, I see the parallel with Palestine. Democracy does not exist when there is a gun to your head. In 1972 the British bombed my family home and business. We were a family of 11, it was the week after Christmas. The bomb was placed inside a child's ride on tractor. It is a grim reality to realise as a child that there are people who want you and your entire family dead. This is what the Israelis have been doing to generation after generation of Palestinians. It displays the viciousness in the Israelis that is beyond my comprehension. I can only pray that Israel does not use any of those nuclear bombs they are so fond of threatening with. Of course they could not do any of it without American money and the scary part is they are so obviously in full control of American politicians.
Many of them, such as the Sauds, were not even from that region.
What region are the Sauds not from?
Thank you for your firm and lucid words, Mr. Moser. As a Brazilian academic and admirer of Clarice, I first encountered your work through her biography and have admired your stance ever since. I’m a university professor in Portugal, where we have many French students, including many Muslims, and I’ve witnessed the phenomenon you describe: people who were once calm and reserved now writing on walls that Zionism is a disease.
I deeply regret the rise in hatred, and at the same time, I lament how timid and inconsistent the critique of Zionism often is here in Europe. Personally, I also saw myself reflected in your video. I have Jewish colleagues, and I sometimes fear engaging too closely, afraid of discovering they are Zionists. That happened once, and I was left deeply uncomfortable when a colleague told me, “It’s the only way — you don’t understand the reality of the situation.”
These are, indeed, dark times. Strength to all of us — we truly need it.
Yes -- people will always tell you that you don't understand the reality. It is quite simple. The Zionists took someone else's country, and the other people don't like it! Sigamos na luta. Abraços. B
Wow! Zionism actually has made me smarter than all the self hating Jews out there. It’s not worth having a discussion with you as we would never agree. But after reading your essay in the NYT I had to look you up. This is exactly what I thought I would find.
I’m sure you’re smart enough to push the starving children of Gaza out of your conscience. I wish I were as bright as you!
I wish you were smart enough to blame Hamas and the Arab countries, who will never accept the Jews right to live in peace. I do care about the kids of Gaza. I think if the world put pressure on Hamas to release the hostages and stand down this would be over. Before the war they used their wealth on tunnels and weapons, instead of food and shelter for their civilians. I do believe Israel is the homeland of the Jews and a two-state solution was the correct way forward, but the Palestinians don't want any Jews anywhere. I also believe if we don't have Israel Jews are not safe anywhere. I pray for an end to this. I want Palestinians to live in peace, but only if they let us live in peace. Why are you so against Jews having a land of their own, on their ancestral land that has always had Jews on it? Do the Arabs need another country? I counted 22.. I understand all this anti-zionism to be anti-Semitism.
You are repeating a string of racist clichés while millions of people are being starved to death by Zionists. I am not going to educate you since you clearly refuse to do so yourself.
This is simply horrific!! How do we know millions are starving? What evidence can we present those Zionists in debate? Thanks!
Sigamos!
Thank you for this great post! For sometime now Zionists are also looking into taking the Argentinian Patagonia. According to Herzl, Jews were given two options—Palestine and South of Argentina. It’s been a few years already that IOF individuals visit Patagonia to “study the place” and in some cases they start the fires so that the land decreases in value. Also the natives from the area are complaining because they’re being evicted and mistreated. But of course it’s not only Zionists, it’s also Brits and Saudis. 🥲
Yep, Netanyahu’s grandiose and megalomaniacal plans to dominate the region are starting to unravel. The Saudi Foreign Minister was just in Tehran for high level discussions with top Iranian political and military leaders to ease tensions between the two countries and discuss plans for the region as a whole. The so called ‘Abraham Accords” are dead and no more. The current slaughter in Gaza has been even too much for the Saudi ruling elite. Now the countries in the region are getting together to solve their problems without the imperial overlords or their regional enforcer.
Let us hope. It has been a long and disgraceful history of collaboration.
Your talk left me feeling more sane, human, connected, alive. I am Canadian and much of what Denisa says about her Romanian context also applies to mine, albeit with possibly less authority-sanctioned violence. As a person who works in conflict transformation, I really resonated with your/Levitsky‘s sense of trepidation about talking and possibly damaging friendships, yet seeing no moral alternative. I also liked her more hopeful framing: we need to have the conversation in a different way, so let’s begin. It reminded me of the Massey lecture series taking place in Canada right now in which author and novelist Ian Williams argues for adherence to two principles, the first of which is, “We can talk about anything if we know how,” and the second of which is, “We should still talk, in good faith, even if we don’t know how.“ Anyway, thank you, Mr. Moser for both talking and knowing how to talk. I hope many are listening and will engage.
Yes, I think it's a similar situation in so many places all around the world. I am torn between talking in good faith -- I think that has led nowhere, and I think it also creates this context where "Israel" and "Palestine" are seen as two warring polities, like "Germany" and "France," rather than the correct context, which is, say, "France" and "Algeria" (before independence). It's very hard. We are all taught to be open to dialogue, but it is also important to see how that liberal openness has continually reinforced this most illiberal of regimes.
I'm not Jewish nor am I a scholar but I've read the biographies you've written. I'm from Romania and the memory of how Jewish people were treated over here during the Holocaust is appalling. In school, every year we'd commemorate Holocaust Memorial Day and remember what the Jewish community in our hometown went through at the hands of the totalitarian regime. It's a sensitive topic over here and I'm having a hard time grappling with what's currently happening in Palestine and with our government, like too many others, wholeheartedly supporting it. It's perplexing to witness. Thank you for the work you do and for sharing these personal insights into the issue, as I and others like myself all over Eastern Europe are trying to understand events which feel like they evade all possible explanations.
Yes, the Zionist regime has successfully blackmailed all these governments. Lots of Romanian Jews survived the war and were then sold to Israel for 8000 lei a piece by the communist regime. I wonder if this is widely known in Romania. Please keep up the pressure on your own politicians. It is a disgrace that they support this.
Thank you for sharing this. Personally I knew about it but it was never mentioned in school or elsewhere so the majority of people don't know. Education under totalitarianism would've never allowed things like this to be talked about openly. In Romania, the conversation is heavily focused on preventing antisemitic rhetoric, and this is why it's so difficult to talk about what is Israel is doing without people labelling you as antisemitic. Pro-Palestine protesters have been arrested, attacked, beaten by the police while the media portrayed them as nazi junkies. It's difficult to even honestly talk about it. That's the insidious nature of Israel's propaganda I think, shutting down all conversation by weaponising antisemitism.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2021-05-20/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/when-romania-traded-jews-for-pigs/0000017f-f47f-d044-adff-f7ff84f60000
95 million people were killed or died in WW2, between 4 and 6 million were Jews. Are you saying that the other 89 million lives were meaningless? How do you measure suffering? was it harder for a Jew to shot in the head after being stripped and made to stand over the mass grave they dug (satanic and despicable there is no question) compare that to a Russian (insert any religion) woman raped, then left to slowly freeze to death on the roadside, both appalling acts of savagery. In the concentration camps were gypsies, resistance, jehovah witnesses. Prostitutes, prisons of war, hooligans along side Jews, the gays were separated and i cannot even imagine what they were subjected to. It bothers me so much that Zionists have turned the suffering of Jewish ancestors into a begging cup and a stick to beat people with. There have been approximately 50 genocides since 1948 so part of me understands the juvenile impulse to say "they did it too" But it is to me is such disrespect for those innocent souls so terrorised and tormented that they probably welcomed death, to use their suffering as a cover story for the absolutely appalling acts of barbarism I have seen on my phone for over 18 months. Day in day out, we have all seen humanity crumble. The Israelis have lost the ability to function in any normal civil society. Just as the Germans had to be rehabilitated after ww2, so will the Israelis, whenever or if ever a group can find the courage to confront and convince them to give up the barbarism.
A very important and well-argued video, thank you. I just have one minor correction. In the early 20th century, the population were 100% Palestinian. It was a multi-faith, country with 3% Jews who regarded themselves as Arabs. As did most Jews in Arab countries. One of the biggest problems is the conflation of Judaism with ethnicity, which I think is debatable. When I, as a Palestinian, did my Ancestry test, I had an equal number of ‘relatives’ with Hebrew names as Arabic ones. We are not significantly different (possibly from European Jews, though?) which is why Israel suppresses and hides all archaeological DNA found in the region.
Anyway, you are absolutely right, Zionism makes people stupid, like all fascist ideologies. They seduce people because they’re very logical. However the logic is devoid of Ethics, hence the acceptance of horror as ‘necessary’.
You are quite right. Almost all of the Palestinian Jews were fiercely against Zionism. They saw what it would mean—as did other Arab Jews.
This is the first time that I have heard such an intense, erudite, and compelling description of what is happening with Zionism. I’m so grateful for your post. I have lost a friend because of her embrace of Zionism and Trump. I know that you cannot be the only scholar saying these things, so this is 100% my own ignorance that I’m only now hearing this argument with such clarity. Media does not cover this viewpoint at all. Thank you!
I know so little about Zionism. You make it so clear. Thank you. I have always defended Israel esp in light of the Shoah, but this narrow minded "right to fight" and destroy others (the Palestinians) as they were once destroy turns Zionism on its head. Zeus forbid you say this out loud to Zionists. You just did🧿💙 The hard truths are what makes us writers. Write on. Talk on. I'm listening.
Thank you for reading! I would love to shut up about this but I don't see any other choice.
As an Algerian girl I agree with you My country suffered from French occupation for a century This is perhaps what makes us as Algerians strongly support the Palestinian because we went through the same thing. Murder persecution
rape… and all kinds of torture Even nuclear rays We suffered… I am saying The important thing is to be a human being before anything else.
Sorry I'm not good at English)؛
Killing children isn't considered fighting. Killing an old man, women, or men. Without them able to defend themselves isn't considered fighting. This is an unforgettable genocide.
It won’t be forgotten.
Wow! This is some devastating wisdom some are certainly not ready to swallow. Author Noah Feldman broaches this too in his book. He is all the rage now, and no less than two Michigan communities brought him to their towns to speak. In my humble opinion, open thinking is the key to moving the needle on intractable conflict. - kaf
https://forward.com/opinion/590180/noah-feldman-book-jewish-identity/
But the Arab is surrounded by American bases! It’s America raging war in IsHell name!
In fact, France killed far more than one million people in Algeria. The “one million martyrs” refers only to the period of the Algerian war of Independence. However, from 1830 to 1962, according to some sources, the total number of Algerian deaths may have reached around seven million.
I am sure this is true. I was only speaking of the revolution, not of the countless victims of the horrific colonization.
Thanks Ben, many fascinating insights into Judaism and especially Zionism. Living as I do in a small city in Australia, I know few, if any, Jews; my knowledge of Jews, Jewishness and Judaism has come largely through literature and other cultural channels. Yet the past 12 months has shown me how powerful political Judaism is here in Australia, and how something (is it Zionism) has suddenly stopped rational discussion, amongst intelligent people, discussion of a topic like the destruction of Gaza and its people. We do not dare refer to it as a possible genocide! Your discussion was therefore very useful for me.
Yes, a lot of people are scared to refer to it in this way. They don't want to say the wrong thing because they know that the Zionists will come after them. And this fear and silence creates the conditions for countries like Australia to support genocide. That's why it's so important for us all to speak out. Because the Zionists never stop talking.